Article written by

Tom Draper

Tom is knowledgeable and experienced at helping employees through legal problems with their employment. He listens sympathetically to his clients and advises them on the best and most cost efficient way of achieving their aims. For more information on this topic email Tom.Draper@tayloremmet.co.uk or call him on 0114 218 4311.

29 Responses

  1. Danielle Dare
    Danielle Dare at | | Reply

    Do you know if this ludicrous ruling has been appealed? In times of such austerity how can an intelligent person pass such a ruling? Millions in expenditure for zero improvement in care. It makes no sense whatsoever.

    1. Ray Dowse
      Ray Dowse at | | Reply

      What about me getting £2.80 a hour, and being at work 24hrs straight.

    2. Robert Mason
      Robert Mason at | | Reply

      Danielle Dare, thank you for your well thought out comment. I am sure that the thousands of care workers who work at minimum wage or just above would welcome your comment above too.

      Clearly it is far more important for the care company Shareholders, Stakeholders, Directors and Management Teams to continue to take their exordinate salaries at the cost of the standard of living of those who work for them. It is clearly fine for their expectations to be that their workers should look after people for the goodness of their hearts for a reduced salary but not for them.

      Finally, it is also important to note in your well thought out response, that the standard of care would clearly not improve with improved salaries for careworkers. Hiring people at the lowest possible amount of money to look after the nations elderly and individuals relatives is clearly the preferrential option. Those people will in no way feel disenfranchised and therefore perform their duties far below the standards that are expected.

      P.S. If you would like further details on my post, please feel free to use this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

    3. Cheryl Stone
      Cheryl Stone at | | Reply

      It makes sense for the worker’s who are in the confinements of the workplace for hours that are not being recognised in their hourly rate. If 3 sleeps per week are necessary that is 64.5 hours per week actually spent in the workplace to be paid for 37.5 and £76 flat rate for the excess! That’s £319.75 for a 64.5 hour week…. £4.96 ph !!!!!

    4. tim
      tim at | | Reply

      Maybe the people providing the high qualtiy care have been grossly under paid to begin with. I know I give a good service for poor money with no pay rise for the past 5yrs. My bill have not gone down. I know benefit payments to the clients have gone up each year!

  2. Robert Mason
    Robert Mason at | | Reply

    Aside from that, I would like to congratulate all those involved with this case. A great win.

  3. Danielle Dare
    Danielle Dare at | | Reply

    Lovely replies there from so may really ill informed people.

    Grab a calculator and do the maths!

    Three people living in a small care home where the weekly fee is set by the council at £458 per week. They each require 24 hour care 7 days a week and the council refuse to pay a single penny more.

    Where are these big salaries and large profits you speak of.

    Its electric and food I’m trying to find not profit.

    In October the wage for one staff member on duty with a 30 minute overlap and statutory holidays and no management hours or sick pay for even one shift pretty much takes every penny of income.

    Where do I find heat, light, food, insurance, repairs etc etc need I go on.

  4. Kacey
    Kacey at | | Reply

    It’s not right that these people who do such good get paid so little. If we could see how much they help and how much care they provide, then I’m sure we would all agree not to pay them at or even less than the minimum wage.

  5. Mike
    Mike at | | Reply

    Everyone is squeezed….Im a retired nurse and would love to run a care business but I have done the maths and I cant see how I can make it pay and better to work in the security industry for £8.60 an hour.
    My better half works in care and she gets a few coppers over the minimum wage for providing care to learning difficulties clients who are very demanding and often very violent.
    The sad truth is that the Govt both local and national do it competitively and cheap.
    Not enough margin for some “businesses” to make a profit and pay all its managers and its difficult for “sole traders” to get the same funding as would be paid to a company.
    Society has to pay enough to fund good quality care…if you dont… well when your 90 and sitting in your own excrement because you didnt vote for fair wages to keep good staff just think back to this blog. The way out is not to exploit the low paid.
    Great work for the legislation. Its a very small help but a help.

  6. Paul Hanson
    Paul Hanson at | | Reply

    Superb discussion. Thanks everyone.

  7. Lynn
    Lynn at | | Reply

    We pay a mechanic at least £40 an hour to take care of our car .
    We pay a hairdresser £20 for 30 mins to cut our hair
    We pay our carers £6.50 an hour to look after the most important people in the world to us our family,
    its about time the government woke up and took notice of the work we do the compassion we show and the dedication we provide .

  8. bertie
    bertie at | | Reply

    Well said Lynn. It’s about time a bit of appreciation is shown for the work we do. I’m sure Mr Cameron wouldn’t be bothered either way though as he has the money to do whatever..whenever. We need to speak up for ourselves because nobody else will!

  9. Wendy Miles
    Wendy Miles at | | Reply

    If you work full time and then have to do 2 sleep overs a week which in my case is another 16hrs added on to your nomal hrs the pay comes to £51.36p, how many people would want to be out of there homes for that sort of pay, not many idiots about.

  10. Cheryl Stone
    Cheryl Stone at | | Reply

    The company im employed by actually pays a flat fee of £25.68 between the hours of 10 pm and 7 am. The client’s i support don’t go to bed until midnight and awake again around 6 am, also very often there are disturbances throughout the night from the clients waking and calling for something. I work 37.5 hours per week but am actually in the work place 55.5 hours this does not seem fair, i am not at liberty to refuse to do the nights as it’s in my contact.

  11. Diane Rae
    Diane Rae at | | Reply

    This debate has gone on for years and still nothing improves for care workers. Tell me then why do we need care workers? Shouldn’t we be caring for our own elderly and vulnerable family members.Oh horror of horrors NO.. because if we are honest its not an easy job. We don’t want to do it!!
    Okay so we will employ care and support workers to do it for us but treat them like our domestic servants.After all care work is easy compared to our work.. yeah.. sitting in front of a screen all day, cutting hair, counting money or getting glammed up to go on TV, dribbling a football around a field, designing a new computer game, these things we all do are far more important!! ! Dealing with our precious family members, well being, diseases, bodily function, big nappies, sometimes aggressive behaviour, nakedness, smelly bodies, open wounds, swollen legs, tube feeding, sputum, hoists, cooking, cleaning, getting up at night because they need the toilet for the 6th time but cant go alone … you can see what I’m getting at …. these things are easy. Care staff only deserve to be paid peanuts then we can make profits for our shareholders ! After all that what’s important in our society, profit!! Its a disgrace we get the care we deserve.Quality care staff will not stick around for long. They need to pay their bills the same as the rest of us. That’s why your loved one had 100 or more care staff through the door this year!! Don’t even get me started on Social services commissioning departments…..

    1. kate
      kate at | | Reply

      Great to hear some home truths!

  12. Elisabete Morgado
    Elisabete Morgado at | | Reply

    Good discussion, I am doing sleepovers for a flat rate of 30,45£ from 22pm til 7am, it is, 15 miles away from home (don´t get paid for petrol), she goes to bed early (around 22:30 or 23:00) but she needs almost all the time go to toilet during the night so by the time i am in bed again 1 hour has gone and then I need to wake up at 6:15 am to help her get up

  13. Linda Harrison
    Linda Harrison at | | Reply

    i am a care worker who cares for a lady 3 times per week from 10pm until 8 am, I am paid £40.00 less tax per night and NI for this, it costs me £4.00 to get to work, I am there so the lady is not alone, no care as yet has been needed during the times of my shift, who would want to be out of their home and their own bed for 30 hours getting paid 4.00 per hour, it’s a total insult to care workers, and well below the National Minimum wage for adults in their 50’s

  14. holli
    holli at | | Reply

    Hi am a young support worker who has been doing sleepover shift for the past four years. I currently work from 10-a.m. To 11pm with the service user then do a sleepover from 11pm until 10 am.. 3 times a week and for the Sleepover my flat rate is 29£ a night.. we tend to be up once during the sleepover.. I love my job but would i recommend sleepovers work to anyone? No spend more time in the sleepocer bed than in my own & makes me feel like am living out of my sleepover bag most day.. for what a whole 29£ and after tax and nl it doesnt leave alot after factoring in expenices for brealfast lunch and dinner plus coffee and milk we need to provide for the three days were on shift the £29 is already gone

  15. Mills
    Mills at | | Reply

    Hi, I have been a support worker for 15 year and two years as team leader, I never had a problem with being paid a flat rate of £32.45 for going to sleep, whenever we got disturbed we were paid hourly rate as well as £32 .45. Be Careful what you wish for, nobody will get paid NMW to sleep, if NMW is being paid it will be to work thus no more sleep in’s no more 32.45 extra, to earn extra money you will have to be awake. We should be fighting for a better standard of pay per hour. There are some companies out there that is all about profit- no values towards people they support, it’s the care staff that provide care, love, security, emotional support all for the right reasons but until NMW is paid by social service/ NHS many companies will be out of business and a lot of support staff will end up working else where probably not in health care losing skills empathy and a whole load of other skill you all have. There will be three shift patterns 9-4 4-11 and 11pm till 9am all awake everyone taking turns to do time on each shift… Is this what is really wanted? Maybe lucky some companies may let you sleep but NHS have 24 hour rota if they are funding won’t they want the same attention? What happens when people we support want holidays abroad and have shared sleep over, do they then pay £72.00 per night, not many people will be doing that. But I do agree our work does need to be recognised, I’m just not sure sleep in’s is whe I want this to be recognised. Ps I think the royal forces are on 12p per hour as they have to be ready on call 24 hours a day and certainly don’t get NMW when fighting for us

  16. Susan
    Susan at | | Reply

    I work in supported living house, sleepovers from 11pm-7am, don’t have get up through the night, but only get flat rate £25. But normally still awake midnight writing notes etc. Work normally 30 hours plus a week and 3 sleeps which on total is 54 hours. Which I do because love my job,

  17. Ann
    Ann at | | Reply

    Ive been going through this with my solicitor for 2 years.I work alone in two joined house with 4 adults.Sleep in one bungalow over night and often get woken We are paid flat rate £33 for the night but no extra if you are awake….only claim if its over 1hour and first hour is free.No back up even if violent…just told to distance yourself.
    We have on call but they are 39mins away if they answer.
    My company say i am paid above minimum wage but divide all hours even overtime pay complete top line before deductions to work it out.So though im part time 18.25 hours with two sleep ins at 20hrs…im actually a full time worker.This is the issue I am pursuing….this affects my credit and pension.
    Its terrible…have done this job for 15 years or more and earning half what i used to.No pay rise for over 4 yrs now

  18. Cheryl Stone
    Cheryl Stone at | | Reply

    Hi I’d be interested in the outcome of this because this is what the company i worked for did…used my enhanced hourly pay earnt for weekends etc to fulfil the NMW, our contracts stated we had enhanced pay for unsocial hours but the company actually stole it back to come to the NMW….dreadfull !

  19. Mandy Taylor
    Mandy Taylor at | | Reply

    I’ve worked for the last 16yrs doing sleepins between 2-3 a week and paid from £10.50 – £25.00 now flat rate . Some houses you are not given a choice of doing these or not doing them it’s in your contract . I do think it should be paid at an hourly rate if it’s part of your contract as you are not given the choice . Let’s face it your company will be making a profit as they will charge maximum rate for these hrs .

  20. Elaine McGuinness
    Elaine McGuinness at | | Reply

    A lot of companies pay minimum hourly rate for sleep ins it was law some yrs ago as far as I’m aware

  21. Maxine
    Maxine at | | Reply

    I have been working for two separate independent living disabled people for twenty years. Two years ago my pay was cut from £114 per 24hr shift to £80. The lady I work for said that Social Services would bring in eastern europeans if there were complaints since they can pay them less. I am sure you can all do the math. I spoke with the manger in question and all my question were answered with NO Comment. I thought I was in a police station.

    If government departments can get away with paying less than the MW, yet on their website they say the law is NMW. They are hiding behind disabled people as employers and making them responsible for breaking employment law as they are banking on the care staff not taking their disabled employers to a tribunal. Its shameful but fact.

    I took this to my CAB and local Councillor. My case was brought up at a council meeting and was received with shock but was told it would take baby steps to change whatever that means.

    Are there no Pro Bono employment layers out there to challenge these departments and get a fare wage so care staff like myself and others don’t have to work 5x24hrs a week to be able to pay our own bills.

    If you are a care staff member employed by a disabled person on Direct Payments and getting less than the MW, we should all get together under one banner. I am more than happy to organize this.

  22. Shirley
    Shirley at | | Reply

    None of us do this job for the money, we do it because we are naturally caring people, and that is our downfall. We look after the most vulnerable people in our society, but seem to be the most disrespected workers of all. You’re worth more as a cleaner, not suggesting that cleaning is easy, there is a lot involved in the job I do. I work full time, and because of sleep ins I spend more time at work than I do at home. There is no job more important than the one we do, as important, but not more so, and I can’t believe that there are comments on here suggesting that it’s wrong to expect nmw for the hours we are at work.

  23. brian
    brian at | | Reply

    This is all great news for cares and it’s about time they are better payed for their valuable input and help in society.
    When does this decision come into force and will the carers be entitled to claim for hour they have worked previously?

  24. Sam
    Sam at | | Reply

    Do people seriously believe that if small to medium company’s have to pay the NMW for hours when residential workers are meant to be sleeping, they will still have a job? My organisation provides solo placements for very challenging children & young people and we are funded through payments for placements through the Local Authority. These Local authorities are consistently trying to drive the fees down because of cuts to their funding and this means that although we would like to recompense our staff with higher salaries, it is impossible.
    If we are enforced to pay the NMW to workers who already receive a payment to sleep-in (and overtime pay for any hours they are awake) we will unfortunately not be able to provide the service we do for one of the most vulnerable groups in our society.
    I agree that all care-workers are worthy of higher wages, but the emphasis for change should be placed with government and local authority funding and not passed off to small providers who are trying to provide an essential service. Maybe someone will take notice when these children & young people no longer have anywhere to go?

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